Thanks Rob,
Your tireless effort to get the truth out has paid off. You deserve a break, Bush's win is like a great burden that's been lifted. I'm taking a few days off to enjoy the freedom.

Posted by: Jack at November 3, 2004 12:15 PM

Yes we can indeed breathe a sigh of relief, to bad it will be spent in some shit hole country fighting for the great Christian Crusader King George W Bush.

I too am saddened that the only choice we had was these two clowns, but even worse America chose to attend this circus for four more years. This President has this entire nation living in a state of fear, and I’m sick of it. One terrorist attack and now we have to worry about the domestic threat level, give me a break people, and the Americans have no one to blame but them selves because they just re-elected America’s biggest threat. I wish I could go on and on, but some of us, thanks to our leader have wars to go fight. I guess I shouldn’t complain though, without the republicans the military would be out of a job. Unless of course we defended OUR own Nation, but I don’t see that happening, W doesn’t believe in the home field advantage, he likes to take the show on the road. Wonder who’s next, I vote for Iran, no need to worry about the countries that we know have WMD’s, like China. Chances are they would kick our asses. Again America has spoke and the word of the day is “W”

Posted by: Defender1 at November 3, 2004 12:15 PM

Anony-mouse, What a load of horse-hocky...It is apparent from your lack of self-identification that while you may be a member of the armed services (thank you for that service!), that you don't have the courage of your convictions to put out your opinions and answer to them like a man.

"W doesn’t believe in the home field advantage, he likes to take the show on the road."

ARE YOU NUTS?!? You would rather be fighting on OUR soil? You better reread the basics of tactics and stradegy that I assume you SHOULD have learned in basic training.

Home court advantage is all well and good in sports, but in war, it's better to take the fight to the enemy.

YOU of all people should have realized by now that we are engaged in a world war against the most unconventional enemy we have ever fought to date, an enemy that has as his goal the total eradication of everything YOU swore an oath to defend. Too bad,so sad, you have a war to go fight; THAT IS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR, so go strap some on and go DO IT. I wish that I could switch places you and let you go back to filling a soft billett bunk doing just what YOU decide is in the best interests in the defense of our nation instead of what the CiC has decided, after all, you are "on the ground" and know SO much better what we should do.

Posted by: delftsman3 at November 3, 2004 01:38 PM

Delftsman3,

It’s always nice to engage in an intelligent conversation which most of this would have been, had it not been for you meek attack on my man hood. I am in the USAF and for obvious reasons I can't put my name to my comments for fear of dicks like you turning me in for something absurd like treason.

If it makes you feel any better I just got back from “The Global War on Terrorism” I was in Afghanistan for 7 months, so I’ve earned the right to say what ever the fuck I want. I too wish we could trade places so I could sit on my ass and scrutinize those of us who go to these wars and then are called things like cowards for having an opinion.

For the record I signed up to “Defend the United States of America, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” So yes I guess I’m NUTS, you asked if I really wanted to fight a war on our soil, when was the last time there was a war on our soil? Need help? It was when we fought each other. Look around there are no enemy planes flying overhead, there are no enemy troops storming the beaches. The point I was trying to make was, I wish we would spend more time cleaning up our problems.

I’m sure you supported Hitler in his campaign to take over Europe as well. Don’t patronize me, I’ve served this country for 9 years and will continue to do so as long as they will let me. I unlike you, believe that we should worry about those that our less fortunate here than in another nation.

I’m glad you support Bush, everyone should support him, I think its great that 9-11 happened three years ago and we still have not made any headway in the War on Terrorism, (please for my sake don’t bring Saddam or Iraq into this, lets focus on the TERROST, and not leaders on countries) But then again the Republicans are great at starting “Wars” on things that you can not stop, like the “War on Drug’s” Look out here comes a platoon of Cocaine, its going to get us.

Posted by: Author Unknown at November 3, 2004 07:08 PM

"...I am in the USAF and for obvious reasons I can't put my name to my comments for fear of dicks like you turning me in for something absurd like treason."

Thats what a handle is for, you think "delftsman" is MY name?

Being in the military doesn't limit you from expressing a personal view, just not expessing a view against your chain of command in a publicly disruptive way. Or had'nt you noticed that SlagleRock is in the Air Force too?

You HAVE earned the right to say whatever the fuck you want, and like I said, thank you for that service. I was where you are 35 years ago, and I too have earned the right to call bullshit when I think it appropiate. We just have different views on what the bullshit is.

"..I was in Afghanistan for 7 months,.."
Come talk to me when you've spent two YEARS in a combat zone.

"Look around there are no enemy planes flying overhead, there are no enemy troops storming the beaches. The point I was trying to make was, I wish we would spend more time cleaning up our problems."

We are engaged in a different kind of war than we have ever faced before, and yes, we DO have to be onguard from a domestic threat, there ARE idiots who hate America enough that they either puposefully or ignorantly work with the Islamofacists you were engaged in fighting with in Afghanistan. They may not be be "storming the beaches or flying in fighter planes in our skys, but they are every bit as much a threat as the foes I faced off with in my term of service.

"I’m sure you supported Hitler in his campaign to take over Europe as well."

"Don’t patronize me, I’ve served this country for 9 years and will continue to do so as long as they will let me."

HELL NO. That is the sort of ignorant statement that really demonstrates the fallacy of your argument, and the unwillingness to learn from the past. We are in the same sort of situation that we were in circa 1938, You are exhibiting the attitude of Neville Chamberlein of "peace in our time" that let Hitler try to realize his dreams of conquest.

Thank God that Bush is cogent enough to realize that war has already been declared on us, had been for at least the last 15 years, and is forcing the enemy to fight on their ground and on our terms, not theirs.

My father spent the last six months of WW2 in a Nazi labor camp...he escaped by hiding in a mass grave for over twelve hours,and slipping through an armed sentry cordon, so don't YOU patronize ME. I know far better than you what Hitler was all about, and I can point to the graves of a number of my family to prove it. The meme that being conservative is Hitlarian only proves the idiocy of the left, substituting easy slogans for cogent thought.

I volunteered for service in a time when hundreds were leaving the country to avoid service. And the country looked down on servicemen as the scum of the earth...patriotism was looked on as almost a mental defect, and the the concepts of Duty, Honor, and Country were foreign to the body politic.

I was not born here, I came here of my own free will and proved myself worthy of citizenship, because I could see that this WAS the greatest nation on Earth, and I wore her uniform proudly to try to repay in some small measure what she had afforded me. As have all three of my brothers. Combined, we have given 36 years of honorable service to this nation.

"I unlike you, believe that we should worry about those that our less fortunate here than in another nation."

Yeah, war is hell...it's disgusting,it's always life changing in the best of circumstances, but you ARE helping preserve the freedoms of ALL of us here, the less fortunate included; helping the less fortunates of another country is just an added bonus, and one you should be proud of.

The military's role is not domestic social/welfare policy anyway, if you believe that, you should leave and get in another line of work where you would be doing whatever you believe is the best way to help all of those unfortunates; it would make you a lot less bitter and judgemental against those you don't even know except that they may disagree with your politics.

There are polititians I like far better than Bush, but he's the best we have at the moment, and he has shown himself to be the right man at the right time.

Reread your Basic Traing manuals on tactics and stradegy and you will find that Iraq and Afghanistan ARE a part of the WOT. It is your inability to admit that we are in an unconventional global war that prevents you from seeing that, perhaps. Saddam was a major money/training/intell source for terrorists, what part of "we will pursue the terrorists AND THE REGIMES THAT AID/HARBOR THEM" didn't you understand in Bush's post 9/11 speech? He stated the course of action he was going to take, and he has followed that same course ever since.

Read history, DEMOCRATS have been the leaders at the time we have started in every war we have undertaken since Lincoln, Republicans were the leaders every time we ended one. WE did not start this war, the enemy did when they bombed the barracks on Beiruit, they have been fighting ever since, it took a Republican to realize that fact, and his son to take it to the foe.

The "war on drugs" was started under Johnson, and I wholeheartedly disagree with it too. I believe in the decriminalization af ALL drugs, and let the fools take themselves out of the gene pool and good riddence. Let the rest of us enjoy our recreational habits. I would love to be able to enjoy the joys of cannibas freely and openly.

Look who the Nazis are just in the the battle against cigarette smokers, and you will see that it comes from YOUR side of the aisle, not mine.

I am NOT a Republican, but a pragmatic small "L" libertarion and a strict constitutionalist.

Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth Rob, you know me, why use five words, when fifty come to mind...

Posted by: delftsman3 at November 4, 2004 01:44 AM

Delftsman. Quit bullshitting the airman. I've known you for 45 years. Yes,you served during Nam .The same as I did. You were never in a combat zone and you didn't come to the States of your own freewill. You were brought here as a baby by your parents. Don't disgrace yourself or dishonor this brave Airman with lines of Bullshit.

Be proud of this country and if you wish be proud of Bush,but you don't have to lie to convince anyone!!!!

Posted by: Bob at November 4, 2004 06:31 PM

Bob, don't be bitter. He never said he was in a combat zone, but he was in Germany as part of a trip-wire unit during the Cold War, and there were casualties from incidents on a regular basis.

Nor did he ever claim to be American by birth. As a matter of fact, I think he explained at one point that he was a naturalized citizen. And if at any time he had wanted to run from service, he had enough family in Europe that he could have done so at any time.

There are no lies there, Bob, and to infer that there are is really beneath you. The elections over. Go back to your corners until the next round in 2008.

You're just grumpy because your son's such a cool guy and we stole your blog. Love you.

Posted by: Mamamontezz at November 4, 2004 10:39 PM

Bob, I was offered many opportunities to return to Holland, had I so chosen to do so. I was a toddler of three when we emigrated. I was 19 when I was naturalized, even though I would have been eligible when Dad got his Certificate from the DIN when I was 8..he wanted us to make our own choice on wether to become citizens, remain RA's, or return to Holland.

Remember how, at the time we first met, Dad was trying to feed 6 kids on $65. a week? My uncle Frake wanted Pieter and I to come live with him and offered to take us both on at least six separate occasions...Dad left the decision up to us, even though it would have meant a great easing of the financial burdens on him, and neither of us wanted to do so, even though it would have meant a far higher standard of living and educational opportunities for us at the time too.

We both knew that this was the greatest country on earth. I was overhyperbolic on the combat zone...It's true that I only spent two weeks in a "hot" war zone and that at a replacement center, but remember the tensions of the time, Germany at the time was a place where the next WW was aching to happen, and we did sustain causelties on an almost weekly basis..always put down as "training accidents" or when not in uniform, crimes by locals, (when in truth it was russian agents testing defenses and resolve) in the higher interest of not lighting the fuse to MAD. Not bragging or bullshitting about it, it was just the task assigned. Just as you were stationed at Limestone AFB.

And Pieter spent two years right on the DMZ fence line in Korea...they had shots fired across the border on a daily basis, with causalties. Remember that LT. that got shot by the Norks? He watched it happen from his barracks room window.

I do consider the Airman to be a rightous service member. He is pulling his tours as they come,where they are, as we all did. He has earned the right to bitch about sh*t duty and the decisions of the CiC and CoC.

We just disagree on command decisions and their reasons. You and I earned the right to disagree about those too, as military members past, present, and for the foreseeable future have done from time immemorial.

Posted by: delftsman3 at November 5, 2004 12:42 AM

Delftsman.I'm not bitter.I'm just stating fact.I knew many who served in Germany at the time you did.Both Army and Air Force.I've related your story to some of them.All they could say was "That's his tale,I sit on mine".Of course they used various phrases.Germany at that time was no more dangerous than Limestone,Me.If it makes you feel better or inflates your ego,I will agree with you.

I was disputing your time in a combat zone,which is what you insinuated.I will not dispute Pieters time in Korea.Besides,in my mind,service is honorable no matter where it is served.

I never questioned your being a naturalized citizen.I simply stated that you did not come to the states by choice.Which is exactly what you said.Were you or were you not brought here as a small child by your parents?

If these weren't lies I apologize, but only if you can agree that they were exaggerations.

Yes,the elections are over.Let's all pray that this great nation can survive four more years of King George.

Posted by: PappaSlagle at November 5, 2004 03:51 PM

Well Delftsman3 you have gotten your way, I’ve put a handle to my post. PapaSlagle thank you for your support and help, I will admit he had me on the ropes. Anyway you are all right its over and we must press on, so I will hold my head up, and answer the call where ever it may be.
Mr. Slagle, when you come to visit I would like to be the first one after Rob of course to buy you a beer.

Posted by: Defender1 at November 5, 2004 09:28 PM

Defender1,you may adress me as Bob or tickle the shit out of me with Sgt.Slagle.I appreciate the show of respect but I'm not old enough for you to address me as Mr.Slagle.LOL!!

Keep your guard up.God Bless the U.S.A.

Posted by: PappaSlagle at November 6, 2004 01:11 PM

Very nice comments you guys have here, congratulations and thanks to allowing my post...

Posted by: Phendimetrazine at April 15, 2005 02:00 PM

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